Sometimes despite all the laughs, Indonesia is hard to take as a serious nation.
Pop Star Ariel was convicted of violating the Anti-Pornography Law and the Criminal Code in relation to three sex videos that feature a man resembling him having sex separately with TV presenters Cut Tari and Luna Maya, the singer’s girlfriend. He was also fined Rp 250 million ($28,000) and 3.5 years gaol.
The presiding judge, Singgih Budi Prakoso, said one of the factors affecting Ariel’s sentence was his celebrity status.
His “crime” was someone stole a personal Video of him having sex and a bunch of sad sexually inadequate tossers decided he should be punished???
Compare that to torturing and burning an Indonesian’s testicles by Indonesian Military, 10 months for lowest ranking person involved and not so much as a reprimand for his Superiors. Not so much as an arrest for those FPI thugs who beat and bashed 100s at Monas square. Burn a church no problem, harass orphans not an issue. Major corruptor, multi exit travel at the airport of your choice. Private sex tape …go to gaol, you sinner…What absolute nonsense. One has to wonder if there is any truth in the rumour this was payback because Ariel happened to make one very senior government official, shall we say a bit jealous and more than lacking in comparison.
As for Budi the judge, seems to me isn’t a basic principle of law that it applies equally to all people since when did being a celebrity change things. Sounds like envy to me and looking at the freaks from the FPI I can see why they are envious. No wonder they are hanging out for the virgins in paradise, because no human would wish to copulate with them unless under duress..
WHAT SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS INDEED…AND WHAT A COMMENTARY ON THE NATION INCLUDING THE SO CALLED SILENT MAJORITY
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UPDATE: Sometimes despite all the laughs – “Indonesia is hard to take as a serious nation” (I want to change that, to Indonesia is just hard to take) We have since had the grotesque incident were 1500 animals attacked 20 people and beat/hacked 3 to death. This of course has now been flashed around the world making a mockery of the nation and it’s claims of civilized tolerance. Even more galling was watching government official after government official make apologies and excuses for these cowardly pigs. The Governor of the region even had the sheer audacity to say the tragedy was beyond humanly powers…Say What!! Who the hell did this person (?)think was doing the hacking and videoing for later viewing pleasure ..a wandering gang of angry peacocks.
Still one would think the government at higher levels would be shocked if not humiliated into doing their job and yet…
Are we ashamed of ourselves yet or what does it take?
From the Jakarta Globe..
Two days after a Muslim lynch mob killed three members of a minority Islamic sect, crowds of furious Muslims set two churches alight as they rampaged in anger over the prison sentence imposed on defendant Antonius Bawengan, 58.
A court in the Central Java town of Temanggung had sentenced the man to five years in jail, the maximum allowable, for distributing leaflets insulting Islam.
But this only enraged the crowd, who said the sentence was too lenient, police said.
“Today was the climax of the trial … The mob shouted that he should receive the death sentence or be handed over to the public,” Central Java province police spokesman Djihartono said.
“There are two churches that have been burned. The windows were shattered and the roofs were charred … There is also another church that was damaged.”
About 1,500 protesters took to the streets and pelted stones at the police, who responded with tear gas and fired warning shots into the air. One police vehicle was set ablaze, Antara news agency reported.
They chanted “kill, kill” outside the court and “burn, burn” as they set upon the churches.
You would think that would spur some action on behalf and yet today..
Two days after a Muslim lynch mob killed three members of a minority Islamic sect, crowds of furious Muslims set two churches alight as they rampaged in anger over the prison sentence imposed on defendant Antonius Bawengan, 58.
A court in the Central Java town of Temanggung had sentenced the man to five years in jail, the maximum allowable, for distributing leaflets insulting Islam.
But this only enraged the crowd, who said the sentence was too lenient, police said.
“Today was the climax of the trial … The mob shouted that he should receive the death sentence or be handed over to the public,” Central Java province police spokesman Djihartono said.
“There are two churches that have been burned. The windows were shattered and the roofs were charred … There is also another church that was damaged.”
About 1,500 protesters took to the streets and pelted stones at the police, who responded with tear gas and fired warning shots into the air. One police vehicle was set ablaze, Antara news agency reported.
They chanted “kill, kill” outside the court and “burn, burn” as they set upon the churches.
Don’t look for a conspiracy theory. It’s shariah which has Indonesia in a steadily less creepy and more and more obvious stranglehold. This country isn’t run by visionary statesmen but by ulama’s, funded by the Middle East. As for the Indonesian silent majority, what is there to say? Give them rice and sinetron. Nerimo aja.
“This country isn’t run by visionary statesmen” I’ll certainly agree with that Robber Barons and the inept. I did kinda like Mad R theory tho…
“Statesman, Politicians, Military, Police, and Judges ‘all’ accumulate ‘Karma.’ It matters ‘not’ of whether anyone believes this or not, it simply is what it is. To injure someone in any manner is unjustified, it is a very difficult position for Judges as they are on the ‘front line’ of Karmic accumulation. Judges will eventually ‘judge themselves!”
Well it’s certainly a nice thought and appeals to the need for a sense of justice which no one can see in the near future without much more suffering by those already victimized and ignored
I do not understand the attitude of law in this country.
I also do not run out think over what is done by gangs FPI over the years. Why the case of Ariel so blasphemed by hordes of FPI, while the cases of corruption such as Gayus no steps from the FPI?
Two years ago, never any cases of pornographic video involving the DPR, and no response from the FPI.
Indeed, The real question is who and why is behind it and why Indonesians in general don’t seem to care. Spare us the morality nonsense, give anyone in Indonesia ten minutes and they can list dozens of places where women and children are exploited and never seen are the so call sexually insecure self appointed guardians of our bedrooms. Of course, those places are controlled by various state officials and institutions.
For instance, what organization controls the most infamous hooker blok in Indonesia?…Common knowledge and yet…..
Normally I find it mildly amusing as let’s be honest the corruption, educational neglect and sheer greed of the corrupt elite who pull the strings ensures I have a good job and easy money. However such blatant victimization of a couple of young people is just evil and perhaps those watching the goings on in the Middle East should glance uneasily towards the provinces in Indonesia. Of course they wont, Ignorance is warm if blinding blanket.
“Spare us the morality nonsense, give anyone in Indonesia ten minutes and they can list dozens of places where women and children are exploited and never seen are the so call sexually insecure self appointed guardians of our bedrooms.”
You need to understand islamic law (which, while is not the law of the land, linger in the back of everyones head, whether he/she realize it or not, as they learned about it little by little since childhood).. basically islamic law respect everyone’s privacy. So adultery, if done in closed room, without flouting it to the masses (in essence, claiming that it is perfectly OK to do sin), wont be pursued that rigorously. Nobody will be checking everybody’s bed room and see who sleeps next to you. Read some news from saudi, they claim there are so many lewd parties goes unpunished there behind closed doors.
When the individuals start making public their sinand wrongs, is when the law start becoming serious, since this means they are challenging authority, and also trying to take others into their wrong path. You see this pattern in case against religious deviant: if they practice it in private, they are generally left alone, but when they start preaching deviancy, the law is harsh.
The people who instigate and/or support ludicrous actions such as those associated with the “sex” case in question do a disservice to the Republic of Indonesia and the Islamic religion. Both in this case have been cast in such an unfavorable light – such a glaring act of salacious stupidity – that those of us who love the Republic and respect the religion can feel nothing but pity for those Indonesians who do not subscribe to the perverted idiocy that like a cancer spreads through the body politic of the country yet do nothing about it.
Rojo..
If there was slightest level of consistency then perhaps rational beings could understand, maybe not agree but understand. Whipping of liitle girls in Aceh, throwing Ariel in gaol for a private tape stolen from him, torturing Indonesian citizens called a “small incident” by the highest office in the land. All the time major corruptors and thieves run free…makes one sad for the country.
“You need to understand Islamic Law” Actually, it’s not relevant, firstly Indonesia is or is trying to be a democracy not a theocracy and the people have demonstrated that is what they want at every election. Secondly, Ariel did not flaunt anything he was robbed and if sad little freaks got their envious jollies watching him and Luna that is their problem not his…or should be.
As for Sin, as I said get back to me on exploitation of women and children common knowledge in Indonesia to all or perhaps you can let us know how the investigations on rape and abuse of Indonesian Maids is coming along in Saudia Arabia? Then and only then would your comment hold a modicum of credibility.
There was no law applied here religious or otherwise, just the sad envious Jealousy of the small minded and ignorant.
Oh by the way, who is decides who is religiously deviant..Except for some people in buildings with rubber rooms and bars no one has a direct line God or any other mystical super being.
It is the height of arrogant delusion for anyone to pretend they and they alone know what others must or must not believe. Don’t forget Indonesia owes it’s economic existence to provinces who don,t happen to believe in or follow Islamic Law or traditions…Fortunately they are a far more tolerant lot than some of the parasites and FPI clones infesting Jakarta and java at the moment.
““You need to understand Islamic Law” Actually, it’s not relevant, firstly Indonesia is or is trying to be a democracy not a theocracy and the people have demonstrated that is what they want at every election. ”
What I was trying to say is that their understanding and learning of islamic law colored their life and influence their attitude to everyday life, it is not necessarily have to be written down. Have you read countless polls that says that people supports more Islam in politics?
Muslim societies are intrisically non secular, so when you see Partai Democrat wins the election, or PKS lost, it is not a rejection of Islam, it just means that the people look at broader issues in deciding who they choose. Notice that even secular parties need to do some lip service to upholding Islamic values, and some local islam colored laws are supported by secular parties. When this secular parties starts advocating total separation of islam and the government, like a ban of call of prayer on national television, or stopping government management and subsidy of hajj pilgrimage, and people still prefer them, only then you can say that people are rejecting islam in Indonesian politics.
Secularism is just an alien concept. It is based on Christianity: “Give Caesar What Belongs to Caesar… …And God what belongs to God.” This kind of idea does not exist in Islamic culture. So when people like you are promoting secularism in an Islamic country, we can legitimately say that you are actually trying to promote christian value on us.
The difference of this case and the common people going to gang dolly is that he is a public figure. When public figure is shown publicly doing sins, they are promoting sins against the public interest. When your driver goes to prostitution, he is only ruining his own life.
On the point of “he was robbed of it”, well I dont know about that. It seems that the judge think that his neglect to secure the files results in all this problem.
It is similar to when someone got burned by hot coffee in McD. McD still have to pay for their failure to prevent a stupid consumer from spilling his hot coffee on himself.
on religious deviation,
in Islam, it is clear: there are some basic principles that define whether someone is within Islam or not, and it had been debated and refined for centuries, so I think by now everybody agrees on it as a common sense. So when some sect starts making up things (like: saying you need to only pray 1 time per week, and make pilgrimage to some mountain in Sulawesi, but still call them self muslim, people can quickly know that they are deviant. )
Nobody,
Interesting input and common propaganda yet fatally flawed in fact. Who decides who is within any Religion. Does not the Koran say GOD is to be the only judge?
The two main sects of Islam themselves refer to each other as deviant, in fact regularly slaughter one another in the name of their version of worship. So from my perspective, very little commonsense on display.
Againo if GOD is all powerful, all seeing why would he need a bunch of thugs dressed in foreign dress to beat and harass old men, women and children.
If you are referring to the Muslims in Indonesia who happen to believe in something slightly different to the mainstream and had their houses burnt to the ground, places of worship ransacked, orphanages lock and children terrified. If that is what you call the application of commonsense, compassion and human development then we are at distinct odds.
What is happening in Indonesia by these paid thugs is a disgrace and indefensible in any civilized society.
Nobody,
Indonesia is a democracy and has to be to survive as it is land of many faiths and beliefs. What is Alien is the current push by a noisy few to impose their version of intolerance on what has been a tolerant and inclusive nation. Let’s not confuse Religion with Culture here, the FPI and their thuggish clones represent the worst of a backward, misogynist culture. Worse they dishonour hundreds of years of Indonesian Culture by demanding the Indonesian woman adopt the dress and behaviour of an Alien and oppressing region of the world.
Your point on law would have some merit if you could only identify anywhere in the world where Sharia law has made the lives of the people better.
Do I really have to post pictures of young girls being stoned to death, or having acid thrown in their faces by the animals, do we need to bring up the excess of Aceh. Is this really the world in we wish to raise our children?
You have curious sense of justice, some who is robbed is not the victim because he should have had stronger locks on his windows?? Seriously? He promoted nothing, if you want to find porn it’s easy to find. Look within yourself and you want public figures..much bigger fish to fry doing far more harm to the country.
Lastly, as I pointed out before Indonesia is not an Islamic country nor can it ever be. Without the resources of the non Muslim provinces the majority Islamic sections would soon face economic ruin and starvation in the streets. Shame more of the intolerant don’t actually sit down and think about all those that contribute to the health and wealth of the nation..something that appears way beyond the FPI and their ilk.
On paper yes, in reality no. Past and present, here and everywhere, the purpose of Islam is to spread and to win, and groups like the FPI are its spearhead for the imposition of shariah law. Listen to the adzan on national television and if you don’t understand the Arabic speech impediment read the translation at the bottom of the screen: Mari menuju kemenangan (C’mon, up to victory). Can it still be more clearly?
Pancasila, my foot. Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa but by implication only if his name is Allah.
Hence, the ‘has to be to survive’… Sad part is the limited reasoning skills on the intolerant don’t understand Muslim Indonesia owes it’s economic existence to the non Muslim provinces and “minority” ethnic groups.
By the way I am not saying Islam has no place in or impact in the body politic of course it does by default. However the time has come to reject the intolerance, violence and sheer double standards and the misuse of the name Islam to project some sick agenda from small minded people.
Nobody,
I hope you are still around as I would like to see how commonsense and religious values fit into the murder of 3 (or fivc or six depending on which news channel you watch) Ahmadiyah Muslims today by yet another gang of cowards wearing the cloak of Religion..
Will people ever start to realize that there is nothing more important than harmony? In Islam, besides the vertical relationship between human and God, there is also this equally important horizontal relationship among people. It’s called Muamalah, and I’m sure almost all six years at elementary plus another six years of high schools they have been constantly taught with this concept. How can they (gang who proudly walk wearing cloak of religion) do what they do, knowing this? Reading newspaper/ watching news about this destruction people do to others leave me with the urge to just change the channel quick, quick, because this is the way the country run, and there’s no way I can do about it.
They need to stop applying the double standard. If it’s people’s right to have their own belief, then let the fuck Ahmadiyah or any religion alone. But since the majority (read: small violent part of majority) doesn’t want it, even SBY choose the safe way not risking to anger this group which in turn will anger all muslim, which is ridiculous. If only he’d stop looking at the mirror, checking on his image all of the time, and start to really care about what people want…
Thanks Missing Chips,
The danger with posts and comments such as these it can end up sounding like a bent and twisted right angle hate post. I work and live with 99.9 % Indonesians with a large Muslim majority and you view would seem to reflect the mainstream if not only view I pick up. Unless I am totally missing the point, then I do not understand how these nasties gain traction and support they do. I guess it comes back to who is supporting these thugs and why?
“Worse they dishonour hundreds of years of Indonesian Culture by demanding the Indonesian woman adopt the dress and behaviour of an Alien and oppressing region of the world. ”
Are you an Islamically educated Islamic scholar who can decide which is culture and which is religion? It is funny that some non muslim actually think they have the credibility to lecture muslims which is “the right Islam” . Regardless of the subject being talked about, isn’t it funny when a non muslim says “those people are not practicing the right Islam”.. well if you actually knows what is “the right Islam”, then shouldn’t you be a muslim your self? otherways, your claim of it being “the right one” rings hollow.
On the question of culture vs religion. What is your religion? If you have any, do you belief your religion is really something that came from God, not some man made cultural product? If so, why would you broke God’s law just to conform with some man made cultural norm? Aren’t you afraid of hell? Religion does have rooms for conforming to local culture, but there are some essential parts that is supposed to be fixed.
Btw, please elaborate on
“Muslim Indonesia owes it’s economic existence to the non Muslim provinces and “minority” ethnic groups.”
Which provinces are you talking about? While papua and bali might be a net contributor to national income, I think other provinces like N. Sulawesi and NTT are actually subsidized.
Contrary to what you might want to belief tourism, oil and mineral no longer constitute that big a part of indonesian exports/ GDP. Most of our exports now is manufactured goods, and the bigger part of GDP is actually local consumption by our own (majority muslim) consumers and government.
Nobody deleted the comments you requested although they did not read to me in fashion you feared. I will comment further later on your other points.
I am glad you returned Nobody, whilst fair to say I am probably fundamentally opposed to your point of view, it is never the less an interesting conversation. Lots of points you have raised..
Am I an Islamic Scholar no, have I studied Islam and have formal documents from a respected Islamic Institution to say that I have, yes I do. I would venture I know more about the basics of the religion and sects than the majority of the thugs running amok at the moment. What is my religion? that of course is between me and God (Or non God, as the case may be), certainly that is the point what someone believes or not, is personal and shall not be imposed by others.
Afraid of going to Hell, not particularly. Whilst some may disagree due to a somewhat acid tongue, I treat people well and respect them for who they are. I like to think I have made a big difference for the better in many peoples daily lives not because of fear of God but because it is the right thing to to do. Even if I am wrong, I figure there will be a long line of bullies and thugs ahead of me, including those who incited and took part in weekends violence.
Coming back to your comments on Lecturing of the right Islam, I am sorry where did I do that? The Muslim world itself cannot decide on what is the “Right” Islam even between the main sects, let along the plethora of minor sects. What I did discuss was culture and on its most visible level, you only have to witness the protests by the uneducated against traditional dress and dances in Indonesia. On a far more insidious level, is the demotion and denigration of the historically strong women leaders (in some cases entire social structures) in line with the odious Middle Eastern Cultures. I happen to believe women are entitled to an Education or for that matter may drive a car (You did bring up Saudi after all). You may suggest this is already allowed, yet many ‘Islamic Scholars” (granted normally self appointed) would disagree. Once again this confusing mish mash of instructions, rules and regulations simply proves that we are facing a cultural invasion of man made agenda driven by those who cloak themselves in religion in a grim attempt to gain credibility.
By claiming a direct command for GOD on cultural issues, when clearly there is not one agreed even within Islam you open yourself to a number of debates. For instance, the following I am sure you ave your own view but I could find any number of differing “Islamic’ rulings:
Female Education
Female Circumcision (mutilation)
Dress
Music
Dancing
Age of consent
Leadership
Don’t get me wrong Christianity had(has) the issues as well, far too many people all to willing to impose their view (invariably narrow and intolerant) on what they think GOD wants..
On the economy, that could take pages however some basics. Domestic consumption due to incredibility low taxation compliance (less than 10%) adds far less to national wealth and health than it should.
But here is some basic facts,
Non oil and gas contributed to 82.2% of Indonesian exports last year.
Three commodities—coal, crude palm oil, and rubber—accounted to 34%
of non oil and gas exports or about 28% of total export. So, combined
with oil and gas, they accounted to 45% of the country’s total export.
Add that with metal ores (copper, nickel, tin) and gold, these basic
commodities make up more than 50% of Indonesian exports.
These products primarily come from Papua (over 4% of GDP) Kalimantan and curiously the Christian Areas of Sulawesi. Sumatra has the potential to contribute significantly more however infrastructure has yet to be developed. Certainly the reality is Muslim Majority Java is not in the same league. We have not even touched on the tourism factor or relative ethnic contributions
No where am I suggesting that the parts are greater than the whole but my point remains that it is short sighted and dare I say ignorant to demand a “one size fits all” when clearly the nation must all work together to survive in its present form. Clearly, the alternative would be far worse, for those regions unable to provide basic income to support their huge populations.
We know there are only 5 non muslim majority provinces out of 30. Give us your exact calculation to support your claim that these 1/6 of Indonesia actually contributed most of our GDP.
I think you came to that conclusion because you are just thinking about that freeport mine in papua that people always talk about. You forget that there are also plenty of (big) gold, tin, bauxites, iron ore, coal etc mines also in muslim majority areas in kalimantan, java, sumatra, or west nusa tenggara. And most of the plantations are in sumatra and kalimantan, muslim majority area.
You don’t really have hard data to back your claim, do you?
“By claiming a direct command for GOD on cultural issues, when clearly there is not one agreed even within Islam you open yourself to a number of debates. ”
There are small differences and there are big, principle differences. Things like whether music or smoking is permissible or not can be debated for days, but in the end of the day, it is still within the limits where we can agree to disagree. Some other things are just too central and important to the faith that most of everyone agree that it is non negotiable.
Oh BTW Freeport 45% of GNP Papua and that one mine alone 3% of national GNP..
If religion came from God and there is only one god, then why are there so many different religions? Unless of course He just wanted it this way which is one more reason to shut up for those who claim to represent the only truth.
Why should we? When you are dead you will rot and nothing which happens afterwards can be worse than what’s already happening to the living. Unless of course you believe you’ll be forced to drink molten metal and eat zaqqoom.
Can you be fair?
I would say that it depends on opportunity and involved. What is wrong for me, can be right for you.
It’s probably hard to be fair so that everyone can be happy, you’re not fit all and it’s not even worth trying because there will always be something that is wrong in someone’s eyes.
You simply have to try as best you can and then not take too much times when it go to hell
This time! it has become very wrong, everyone should be equal before the law, beggars or General shall be equal before God and the law.
The bitterness is something that really binds a human being. A bitter person devotes so much energy to feel sorry for themselves and to dislike the person who wronged one that it is difficult to think of something else, and this is nothing any judge should engage in.
To serve and live for the law is not selfishness and create vicious circles, it became a selfless favor of the law, we decided to go into a mutual service, to live for law and justice and to build up the others and preserve society .
This look like a fucking good moorning Sadi Arabia
Nobody,
Since when is Kalimantan, a muslim majority area????It is Christian/Dayak except were local people have been forced out by the economic refugees and the “transmigration” polices of the past. I will confess a plethora of new Mosques have been built of late. Although for the life of me cannot recall anyone ever coming seeking our signature to have a place of Worship built. Then again can anyone ever recall that process apply to anything but churches?
In the figures, it’s not a claim but actual. The figures are directly from the both the Indonesian Government and the primary business website in Indonesia and yes those few provinces provide over 50% of Indonesia’s GNP. Food for thought isn’t it? Grotesquely, the infrastructure and the people of those provinces has been sadly neglected by the Jakartacentric mind set of the government and the corrupt practices of the grasping elite.
Those percentages are not made up but hard data based on actual Business Data. Freeport for (instance) 6.72Billion in revenue last year, and the peoples reward Torture and abuse including more economic refugees as the powers that be try and make that province Muslim “Majority” against the will of the people. Coal Exports surged 45% last year to 12.6 Billion (Do want to guess where the majority of that came from?) Yes Sumatra, has some impact but again due to infrastructure neglect not as much as it should. I have the Hard Data, it is what I do for a living. Question is if you want to refute this, then you need to provide verifiable data to the contrary (best of luck) rather than blithely informing us erroneously that Kalimantan is a Muslim Province.
I can understand why you would be so concerned about those percentages, its frightening to think about in the bigger picture and makes a mockery of “one size fits all” mind set of the intolerant. Fact is Java needs the provinces more than the provinces need Java for economic survival.
On so called settled issues of Islam Nobody, you have ignored the obvious examples I provided you of differences between schools of thought and try raise “smoking” as a debatable issue. I disagree that women’s education, circumcision, women leaders, age of consent or even driving cars are small issues. I have not even touched on the more repugnant issues of honour killings or stoning. Why don’t you try and address some the “little” issues I raised rather than misdirecting?
here is a map from UNDP:
http://www.undp.or.id/general/maps/Map_religions.jg
So how can you be more credible than this UNDP.
I did no say “small issue”, I said issues where it is religiously OK to differ, as long as each side has their own solid argument for that. So for example, if a person say: “women cant drive”, or the opposite “women may drive”.. no body will call him not a muslim for that, he is just having different interpretation/opinion, perhaps not a very informed interpretation, but he is still a muslim. On the other hand, when he said “there are 2 god”, then obviously by anyone’s standard he is not a muslim.
Things like banning women’s education, etc, is mostly a cultural product, so you cant really blame Islam for that. If you look at nearby areas, you can see that people with different religions will have similar views on that. I’ve never heard any Indonesian campaigning to ban women from school. On the other hand, are you proposing we have to support local cultures in certain areas in asia where people regardless of religion do not let their women go to school?
Typo on the map url – http://www.undp.or.id/general/maps/Map_religions.jpg
That map statistic makes Islam as 90% of the total population in that country. That map statistic has lots of big mistakes have. In fact, Islam is almost 80% of the total population always.
But therein lies the problem with a Theocracy. No one knows exactly what it stands for how it shall be implemented. At least with a democracy, people have to at least go through the motions of what they represent and if the people don’t like it they can vote those who seek to oppress out.
Again it is disingenuous to say
Thanks Dave,
I would have a real issue with that Map..It does not even mention the Dayak beliefs..perhaps for the reasons above. Tough when the government won’t even acknowledge your beliefs exist…
I’ve got serious issues with that map too.
I’ve seen it before and commented on it before elsewhere. Amongst very, very many things wrong with it: is that blob of “Buddhism” in East Java the Tengger Hindus? Who the hell are all those Hindus in the middle of the Kalimantan jungle? Why are Adonara and Solor (majority Catholic) and Sabu (almost all Protestant with a smidgen of “traditional belief”) marked as “Modernist Muslim”? I know there’s quite a few Chinese in the Lingga islands, but are they really all Buddhist, and do they dominate? Really? Where, for the love of god, are all the Christians in Maluku? Shouldn’t Sulawesi be a lot more dappled? And the Kalimantan interior too? Where is “traditional belief” in Sumba and Papua? And what the hell are “Modernist Islam” and “Traditional Islam” anyway, and how is it that they are so firmly geographically defined (rather than being all mixed up, the way most people who know anything about anything would say they are)?
In short, your map’s a piece of crap…
We were talking about the majority religion in province level. Non muslim majority provinces in this case the map are correct, there are only about 4 or 5 non muslim majority provinces, they are shown correctly as christian and hindunese on the map. Other provinces are majority muslim.
Encyclopedia Brittannia has similar map.
Hey, North Sulawesi is modernist Islam on that map. Never knew that.
Btw, what is modernist Islam? Christianity in the process of being ‘converted’ to Islam? A convoluted argument for boasting the numbers of the “fastest growing religion” in the world?
I dunno, you tell me…
I have always been under the impression my fellow Manadonese were predominantly Protestant with a small Catholic minority. According to this map and nobody I must have been wrong.
It not so much who Nobody and his ilk claim to Muslim that concerns me. It’s more the ones they refuse to disown!
As I said, Lairedion, the map’s a piece of crap.
Aside from its blanket failure to account for the Christian bits of Kalimantan, Sulawesi and Maluku, those totally random errors (the “Modernist Islam” in manifestly Catholic/Protestant bits of NTT; the bizarre Buddhist archipelago off the east coast of Sumatra; those Hindus in the Borneo jungle and those Buddhists in the East Java highlands) make the whole thing worse than useless.
And even where it “accurately” indicates the “majority”, this map – any such map – can be thoroughly misleading. In fact, even to say “Java is 95% Muslim”, whether or not that’s actually true, is in itself misleading. If you regard a 5% minority population as evenly spread across the island, it makes them seem fairly insignificant in both numbers and profile (it shouldn’t, but it does make it look that way). But the fact is that they are not evenly spread. I’d be willing to bet that there is not a single city/large town in Java that is 95% Muslim; some of them are probably pushing 30% non-Muslim; there’s one village I know of (on the slopes of Gunung Lawu) that’s almost 100% Hindu. How does the map take into account such complexities? It doesn’t. It’s a piece of crap, and it would be even without the ludicrous errors.
On “modernist Islam”, actually “Islam Modern” is a pretty common concept and label in Indonesia, and one that doesn’t, by any means, have to relate to shrieky people with pubic hair on their chins, howling for shariah. However, to suggest that it has a grand-scale geographical realm is, like everything else about the map, extremely silly.
Word to the wise, I would avoid getting into a debate about culture, society and the history of Indonesia with Timdog unless you were very very sure of your facts.
i saw only a few seconds and i’m almost puking. for real. disgusting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgY6N6Qe5EA&has_verified=1
if this shit doesn’t finally get them to do something nothing will, 1500 against 20….
Thanks Timdog, I spend a large part of my daily life wandering around the back blocks of Kalimantan and while I would never claim the insights in the culture mores you have, I find bizarre people still dismiss the Dayaks so easily..
Mad Rotter indeed, to be fair to Nobody he has privately mentioned that he is no in any way a supporter of violence and hopes the murdering ones are caught.
The trouble is for me is the way some seeming rational and intelligent people cannot see the linkage between things like what happened to Ariel and the deaths on the weekend. It stuns me that people like nobody will depend hours debating me but never once outright condemns the bestial FPI or the cowards in your link.
I hope you are right about finally something will be done, but I doubt it.