It must be a constant irritant to Indonesia to be continually portrayed as hotbed of crazed Muslims howling for blood. Reading some comments posted locally and elsewhere, one would think that the expatriate walking around Indonesia must be on constant guard to hordes of perfidious, salivating Indonesian Muslims hiding behind bushes just waiting to jump out and slaughter poor innocent expatriate infidels. The reality is so far from that it is difficult to articulate.
Indonesia has its problems and at times can be frustrating place but to even suggest that the life style for an expatriate is anything but privileged for even the most socially and culturally inept is just abject nonsense. Indeed, far too many people receive degrees of respect that are well beyond that could be reasonably expected from their behaviour.
Even with the tragic bombings which destroyed so many lives both Indonesian and Expatriate, it is an abject lie and an insult to the host nation to suggest that expatriates walk in fear or even modify their behavior (any more than they do at home) as result. With the exception of the very few who live from cheap room to sleazy bar, the majority of expatriates live within a stone’s throw (?) of a local mosque and take a fairly active part in the local community. It would be a particularly paranoid fruitcake who regularly has any issues other than a little noise pollution. Of course, living close to a Mosque and complaining about the noise, is on par with the moron who buys a house next to the airport and complains about loud engine noises. I would add a qualifier here, it would be nice if the local Imans had to pass a “tonal” exam and learn some basics about speaker distortion.
The Drum would challenge anyone to suggest that walking past the local Indonesian Mosque as the legions disgorge after Friday prayers is anywhere near as dangerous as walking past the local football club in your own country after a loss at the home ground (having said that Indonesian football hooligans are about as cute n cuddle and only marginally more intelligent than the EDL).
Thanks to the low brow populist, rhetoric from the closet Nazis, an Asian foreigner is far more likely to be verbally or physically abused by a bunch of cowards in Australia than any Expatriate in Indonesia. In a challenging piece of mental masturbation these armchair Loony-Cons somehow envisage themselves as patriots whilst calling for the very suspension of the freedoms and rights that free society is based upon. In a ironic twist, the Loony-Cons and modern day brown shirts have done more to reduce the freedoms and the rights of the average citizen than a minor number of bumbling jihadists could do in a 100 years.
Highlighting the xenophobic and ignorance of the Loony-Cons was the call for Australia to cease immigration of Muslims and the active deporting of Muslim Citizens as they are not part of the Australian Culture. Such a statement clearly demonstrates the silliness of the brown-shirt shrills position, a simple history check on why Australia’s most famous train “The Ghan” would reveal many Muslims have a lineage far more intertwined into the fabric of Australia than some misbegotten descendant of the ten pound POM of the 1950’s. Fortunately, these Drongos remain figures of ridicule as well they should, although like most two bob bullies can be dangerous in groups or of given too much oxygen.
Fortunately, vast majority of the Shrills are mere parodies and hence are fairly easy game for mockery and tend to not breed straight which limits their numbers. Despite the laughable claims as patriots and supporters of the military, the vast majority have never heard a shot fired in anger and are held in contempt by those that have. Most can recognize these serial loons for what they are, sadly however the brown shirts remain the Osama clone’s greatest PR weapon and in this case Australia’s greatest shame.
In summary, the Drum suggests that many things need to be considered before coming to Indonesia as a tourist or an expatriate including a crumbling and inadequate infrastructure, a totally inept governmental approach to tourism and extremely poor access to medical care outside major population centres. However, the vision of Muslim hordes screaming for your blood should be well down on your list, probably alongside tiger attacks and the like.
Indonesia is much safer for gringos than a lot of Latin American and African nations.
On the opposite, I will think twice before traveling through Eastern Europe. The fall of the Iron Curtain have unleashed a lot of xenophobia towards any person not white and straight.
Indeed “L”, while personal safety is just that, I do think Indonesia gets a fairly unfair rap in many regards. Most seasoned travelers in the region would tell you that its pays to have your wits about you far more in places such as Thailand, Philipines, Vietnam far instance. Not saying those places should not be visited but on an apples to apples comparision….
i Oigal, for the most part I am in agreement with your portrayl of the peacefulness of the vast majority of Indonesian Muslims toward ex-pats. However, the fact is their is still a dangerous element as exhibited by the bombings that have taken place over the years.As much as we might feel apprehensive in Indonesia when travelling into remote areas the more dangerous areas have proven to be where we feel saftest and that is Jakarta & Bali.
That would certainly the perception by many Patrick but London, Spain, Thailand had their bombings and none of us can avoid being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The reality is you would more far far more likely to be injured in a traffic accident and in which case Jakarta and/or Bali would be a far better option.
I would still venture that Jakarta after dark is still safer than 99% of USA cities,
One of the (many) things that leave me in a state of exasperated rage is this very phenomenon: that of people who really ought to know better (being as they live there) propagating this idea that Indonesia is somehow a dangerous place, because… well, you know what I’m talking about.
What makes this all the more laughable is that this idea is so often propagated by people noisily consuming alcohol, in full view of the street in the middle of the capital of (adopts dramatically ominous voice) the world’s largest Muslim nation…
When a nervous would-be traveller asks (as they often do) “is it safe to visit Indonesia?” or (if they’re female) “Do I need to dress a la Iran for a visit to Java?” my instant reaction is to want to laugh in their faces, but then I do realise that, given the nonsense out there in both real professional media, and floating around in the bin-piss of the blogosphere, it’s hardly surprising that people might ask those questions.
But that people who may have actually spent years in the country, even if only in the very narrow confines of a certain sector of Jakarta, could still be expressing these ideas, is… well, it’s just preposterous.
I think I am quite justified in calling myself a “seasoned traveller”, both within Indonesia itself, and in the wider world. The Asian continent is, I am very confident. the safest in the world in terms of “personal safety”, and especially in terms of violent crime for visiting tourists/travellers/expats; within Southeast Asia Indonesia is one of the safest countries by these same criteria (Singapore and Malaysia being the only two I would regard as being any safer – interesting, Malaysia being up there: I don’t think that it’s the fact that these countries are “Muslim” that makes them safe; but it certainly doesn’t seem like being “Muslim” automatically makes them unsafe)…
Finally, as someone who has made an effort to see as much of the world and to meet as many people as I possibly can with interest, empathy and an open mind, I find it incredible and depressing that there are people apparently endowed with the initial capacity to leave home, who are still able to view huge swathes of the population of this wide and wonderful world as amorphous blocks, and to view them with reductive hostility and rancorous ideological hatred.
Timdog, I would struggle to harness such a such a phrase as
Ok, I am impressed, it summed up my long winded post in one sentence….bugger…:-)
Personally, I find it repugant in the extreme when as you say people who should know better try and paint Indonesia as a particularly dangerous place when that is just not so. I certainly have not lived the life of an angel and found myself in places and a condition that would be at best considered insane in most Western Countries. On the other hand, I have “home stayed”, walked and schooled in various provinces across Indonesia on my own and never felt threatened or pressured. Indeed, the hospitality always exceeds what most would consider reasonable even by “just being polite”. It is always funny that based on the Indonesian perception that all Australians must have a beer, somehow from somewhere a beer will appear because thar would be the polite thing to offer.
It is sad and amusing at the same time on the odd occasion you find yourself in some of the more wellknown barfly dens listening to the nonsense spouted by self appointed expert on Indonesia (every bar has one). You can only shake your head and feel pity for them for what they have missed. It does however frustrate me that some people actually take these clowns seriously.
But stating the facts in all their bland glory doesn’t sell newspapers or attract blog traffic. Nobody wants to read about 1.5 billion Muslims living their lives in peace and getting on with it; they want to read about the violent, oppressive, darkest fringe of the faith.
If XXXX and chums do eventually get their way and there is some kind of grand clash of civilizations (unlikely), the press will be at least partly culpable due to their continued portrayal of the very worst of Islam. Just as they are culpable for allowing a gun-toting redneck preacher from Tennessee stir up bloodshed and violence in Afghanistan…
I find it amazing that some shallow thinkers believe the way to combat the moronic extermists is to engage in some bizarre race to the bottom in modes of behaviour.
Interestingly, the elevation of the fear mongers and closet racists has created a situation where the baying hounds have done more to roll back hard won freedoms and rights than the mad mullahs could ever do. You could not slide a cigarrette paper between the views of the hard line extermists and the baying hounds of the west.
Hey BM,
Probably best if we didn’t refer to other local bloggers by name. Tends to get too personal and boring for others afterwhile. Besides the ideas are subject material enough and unfortunately not that uncommon.
I will take issue with the 1.5 billion Muslims one day soon, its a nice number and oft quoted but if you add up all the numbers claimed by the various cults we get a population about six times the total population of the world. I also tend to think the lumping all Muslims together as one great lump once again is a major fallacy. Muslim brotherhood is a fanasty of huge proportions and its a classic case of one side feeding the other as that is the very notion the Loony-Cons try and project but I don’t believe for a second the outlook of life from the average Indonesia even comes close to being the same as Muslim from Afghanistan. Iranian Muslims vs Iraq Muslims…Persia vs Arab..
I’m not quite sure what to make of this post, there are so many straw men being knocked down it isn’t at all clear what the actual point is.
We are certainly all in agreement that Indonesia is a relatively safe society for an expat -who obeys the societal norms and doesn’t rock the boat- to live. However whilst in western countries there is more random violence and criminality (usually limited to city centres after dark) there is also legal protection for immigrants who choose to protest against the prevailing orthodoxies, something which most certainly does not exist in Indonesia. You pays your money and you takes your choice. I have chosen to live in Indonesia so my sense of relative priorities is obvious.
Furthermore to somehow dismiss the deliberate slaughter of dozens of foreigners in a series of attacks over the last few years as unimportant compared to traffic accidents is so disingenuous as to render the argument facile. Indonesia is a largely safe society for compliant foreigners but one cannot ignore the presence of an extremely dangerous sector of society here which seeks to murder foreigners and which has done so at times with strangely ambivalent reactions from government agencies.
But what I find most incomprehensible is the rant directed at the “looney-cons” a term with which I have to admit I was previously unfamiliar . Who are these people? Are they important? Do they occupy serious positions of power? Is the unverified claim about wishing to deport Australian citizens some sort of realistic prospect? Who came up with it? When? Did it get any remotely serious attention? If not why is it included in this post about the relative safety or otherwise of Indonesia?
I agree about how life for an expat in Indonesia can be very congenial, although not always, get on the wrong side of powerful opponents here and see how quickly the grinning “hello meester”attitude is replaced by a very sinister and dangerous prospect indeed.
I also agree that the idea that Indonesia is a seething hotbed of Islamic fanaticism is absurd but perhaps I’ve lived here not to long to be carried away by the starry eyed notion that Indonesia is more “tolerant” of diversity than western countries, it most certainly is not and anyone who believes that is a naive idiot who is probably heading for a serious gunk.
I love Indonesia, I love the Indonesian people but I don’t have my head in the clouds, if you wish to continue to enjoy this beautiful country you need to be able to look at it warts and all and drop the rose tinted spectacles. Indonesia isn’t always the smiling, benevolent place it seems to be, stick around long enough and you’ll see what I mean.
B/B.. No one is dismissing the actions of the insane few who as you say engaged in the “deliberate slaughter of foreigners” (and Indonesians?) and the threat as you say still exists as it does in all countries. However to suggest that the over riding culture to expatriates is/was hostile or unwelcoming (or even unsafe) is simply not correct. It was never my intention to suggest that the post treated the actions of the bombers and their victims as unimportant and if that is geniunely the impression you took from the post then you have my apologies. The reality remains that statistically at least one has more chance of being injured in a traffic accident that subject to some insane bombers futile effort at ever lasting bliss with a number of unlucky virgins.
I make no apologies for the “Loony Cons” and that may become clearer in future posts of a more global nature, however a classic a Loony-Con would be Fox News (?) Glenn Beck. Call it a poor attempt to provide linkage to a furture post if one must.
I take your point
and
However, not sure where I was commenting the relative tolerance levels particularly within Indonesian Society or the actual legal system Indonesia both that could handle long and verbose posts on their own. The post was fairly narrow in focus on the perception of Indonesia as a unsafe destination for an EXPAT.
It may suprise you to know just how long I have been around and yes I have seen the very very ugly side as well but that does not override my entire outlook nor in those incidents was the aggression and horror directed at Expats.
Never the less, thanks for the long comment
typo; ‘I’ve lived here too long not to be carried away’
A small point but what is the definition here of “expat”?
To my mind an expat is someone who is living here temporarily, usually on a fixed contract of a number of years and usually at the behest of his employers who provide for his accommodation, healthcare, insurance, legal protection and education at special international schools for his children should they come with him. These expats are not making a life in Indonesia and are merely passing through on the way to the next career posting, they are familiar all over the world and certainly enjoy a comfortable, indeed pampered, existence although many would consider Jakarta to be a hardship posting. Is this who you mean when you refer to “expats”? If so then I am not included.
I, like most other westerners of my acquaintance here, are more appropriately defined as “immigrants” although you will never here us referred to as such. I came here on my own, as an individual, made my own way in this society, reasonably successfully I’d like to believe, and have invested my own money, time and human capital in making a new life here in Indonesia. I live among Indonesians and my wife and children are Indonesian and God willing Indonesia will be my permanent home.
I occasionally ponder why immigrants to my former country won’t or can’t seem to adjust to life and society in their new home the way I have done in Indonesia and more pertinently how the Indonesian state doesn’t treat me with the same generosity that western governments treat immigrants.
If immigrants to the UK or Australia were treated in the same way as immigrants like me to Indonesia are by the government here there would be justifiable outrage and the usual handwringers would be howling down the heavens in their cries of racism, but as a good immigrant I just accept the rules of my new home, keep my head down, get on with it and hope my kids will get a better deal.
B/B….A interesting point, although drifting from the original point of the post which was essentially driven by the desire (?) of many who live in Indonesia and others who should know better painting a picture that Indonesia is a dangerous hot bed of Islamic Nutters making it unsafe for foreigners to walk the street. I do take on board your comments about the need shall we say tighten the posts to avoid the perception of “strawman” although that was a pointed (although somewhat innane) indulgence meant for a very specific audience.
Personally I would not use the term immigrant to describe any foreigner within Indonesia for the very reasons you state the Indonesian Government does not even grasp the basic concept of immigrants and their treatment of long term foreigners who have made significant contributions to the country is nothing less than abysmal. Certainly the subject of “immigrants” both here and in other countries is far too large to be covered in the comments section.
I would suggest a certain amount reverse snobbery in your description of Expats, as any number of foreigners have come to Indonesia under the circumstances you describe and yet have decided to stay on and raise families of their own (and for other reasons). I see no reason to envious of anyone who makes a success of their lives no matter how the journey begins.
I think you would agree that if you describe yourself as a expat or immigrant, you do enjoy a level of respect and hospitality as described in the original post. I acknowledge your point that should things turn ugly they can turn very ugly indeed but it is important to seperate inept governance from the general populace and culture in this case. After all it was a post not a thesis..
I do however thank you for the interesting points you raise, I may try and put a DRUM spin on some of them later..
@Berlian Biru
I’m totally with you about considering myself an immigrant; but you are probably the only other long-term “expat” I’ve ever conversed with who will even consider the possibility that after 15 years here, settled, married, and running their own business that they might, just might, be an immigrant.
As you’ve implied; it’s not as simple as a scale of more-tolerant vs less-tolerant; there are aspects where Indonesia seems more embracing of other faiths and cultures and there are aspects of life where it seems thoroughly xenophobic. A general rule is that wherever a Pegawai Negeri (or anyone with a uniform for that matter) is involved, Xenophobic and discriminatory policies will be the norm.
But in interactions with normal Indonesians – i.e. those without power, there is a powerful sense that people try to live together in line with the principals of Pancasila and avoid conflict.
A little quote from the mighty Ryszard Kapuscinski, discussing the great anthropologist Bronislaw Malinowski:
Kapuscinski and Malinowski were, of course, “white men in the tropics” themselves, as indeed are most of us here. But still…
BB – in your first post you rather missed what for me was the point (or one of the points) of Oigal’s OP. The point was not the challenges and difficulties and hostilities that one might face as a foreigner living in Indonesia; rather it was a general perception of the “safety” of the country.
One of my best friends lived for several years in Rio de Janeiro. Quite frankly it sounds like a terrifying place to me – lying in bed at night listening to gunfire crackling out in the darkness; huge swathes of the city totally off-limits to wandering outsiders, especially gringos; gun and knife crime rampant, the strong chance of being robbed at traffic intersections or on the beach etc etc etc.
Certainly not a place for me, and certainly bearing no comparison to Indonesia where – simply making your way rather than “living”, doing business etc – you would have to work very hard indeed to get yourself into trouble…
Yet a would-be-tourist or potential expat looking at the possibility of Brazil as a destination would, I suspect, be likely to have fewer concerns than one considering Indonesia (or at least fewer soul-gnawing, night-sweating concerns: for some reason it seems that the very real – and to me very scary – threat of being stabbed or shot for my wallet leaves many people less uneasy than the vague, unquantifiable “threat” of being surrounded by “Muslims”)…
But Indonesia’s image problem is not entirely about “Muslims”, however. Egypt is a country that seems to be the most dangerous in the world when it comes to “Islamist terrorist attacks against tourists” (still a lightning strike risk, as far as I’m concerned). Yet while Indonesia (which, if you came up with some kind of “deaths in Islamist terrorist attacks per head of the population” or “terrorist attacks against non-Muslims to percentage Muslim population” equation would, I’ll wager, turn out to be markedly less “dangerous” than the UK) labours as some kind of heart of darkness in many imaginations, Egypt remains spectacularly resilient – chuck as many grenades and dead tourists at it as you want, and they just bounce straight back off and the charter flights and package tours keep sweeping in.
This is something that I really, really struggle to explain. I would be delighted to hear any theories…
On the expats/immigrants thing, I’ll save the details in case Oigal does do a fresh post about it, but I’m fairly sure that inverse snobbery is at play here.
And also, however you regard yourself, the average Indonesian is unlikely to spot such distinctions, no matter how much you make “not being an expat” a part of your personal identity as a “white man in the tropics…” Something to remember.
I’ve got a funny anecdote from Sumba to illustrate that point, but it’s far too long to relate right now…
Timdog,
Very nice Kapuscinski quote – u never disappoint. Argonauts of the Western Pacific a great read. On the other hand, those white men were much more dependent on word-of-mouth information in languages they couldn’t speak.
Assmad, Nice (well maybe not nice) However you disappoint! What no abuse? Are you ok?
And on the other hand.. Not being as well read as Timdog, I have never the less been caught out time and again believing the “history” “legends” “myths” of the local villagers on what they honestly believe is true later information proved somewhat different.
Best one so far was the “Cave of Skulls” on a island near Tim Tim. Curious and vicious, obviously I was not meant to see it but then again was I??
Hello,
I write from Spain. In October, again in Indonesia, my intention is to open a art gallery in Indonesia. I love Indonesia and its people. I share the opinion of Oigal . Never problems in Indonesia. Never! If you respect, they respect you. Sorry for my bad English.
I wouldn’t go as far as that, Juan.,
Again, in my experince in various countries. I prefer to Indonesia. I’m not foolish enough to assume that all people are good! I know some “difficulties” of the day to day.
But in general the Indonesian people is honest, respectful, with many family values, friendship. I want to live much of the year in my beloved Indonesia. I have no doubt that if respect for people, laws and customs. I will be well respected.
I know the difference between Bali and Java.
I think that the “evils” of bali are largely by tourists who arrive. They are not always the best example!
Greetings.
I think you may doing the tourists of Bali of bit of an injustice
I suggest you save your post and read it again in 2 or 3 years.
ET,
If I may jump in a bit as well, if the impression you have from the post is that I am saying all is Hunky Dory with Indonesia and there is No threat to Expatriates and Indonesians from various looney tunes then that is incorrect but as Ody put it compared to her developmental peers Indonesia rates far higher on the safety scale and general acceptance of Expatriates.
No one is suggesting there is still not a very real threat of further bombings, however that can tragically be equally be applied anywhere and it would be wrong to say those ignorant fools have the support of the general populace.
While it ruins the sterotype of all Muslims or even Muslim majority countries are like minded in attitude or demeanour, the recent gathering of the insane protesting in Pakistan over the pontential burning of the Koran is a classic example. Indonesia had the usual suspects and rent a crowd but generally life went on as it always does. Expats in Indonesia would have taken no more than normal pre-cautions but you can bet if you were in Pakistan you would have been very very wary over the last few days.
It does no one any good and Indonesia a great disservice to follow the Shrill’s line of fear and loathing of all things.
On a lighter note, If you were just commenting on “J” expectations in Indonesia, yea he has some shocks coming
This is exactly what I was commenting on. Indonesia can have an intoxicating effect on first time visitors, including me. It takes time and experience to come to ones senses and separate the wheat from the chaff, part of it attributable to the cultural murah senyum (cheapness of the smile) and the usual basa-basi (superficial polite talk). Mau ke manaaa? The climate has probably also something to do with it, conducive as it is to bengong (sit and stare) and succumb to a lifestyle of ‘Eat, Pray, Love’.
The jungle may be a wonderful place but don’t relax and sit down on your bare ass, you get bitten or stung before you even know it.
THANKS FOR THE COMMENT …. commented in three years! But I trust my instinct for survival and help my caution. By the way, I do not usually sit in the forest with naked ass. I prefer the top of the tree with some good shorts and hiking boots best. I understand the comments and good will. Thanks!
Sometimes nature calls and forces you to expose your ‘vulnerability’. These are the moments of truth.
jejejejjej … True. I had not thought about it !!!… I will be in care.
Ok, my question has absolutely nothing to do with the post, but since there are so many seasoned Indonesia hands commenting, I was wondering if they’d be able to take a stab at this.
What’s the deal with Indonesians and colour coordinated clothing? The entire extended family turns up wearing the same colour (and mostly the same fabric) at weddings. Not just a few bridesmaid equivalents, mind you – but parents, uncles, aunts, cousins – the works. At Lebaran, the theme continues and the same colour and fabric is used for clothing for the entire family.
Even in school and university reunions, people tend to dress colour coordinated – you’d find reunion pics on FB where entire classes are wearing jeans and white shirts (presumably the easiest outfit to coordinate).
What’s the deal with that? Has anyone observed this anywhere else or is this an Indonesia exclusive phenomenon?
I can give you some hypothetical answers for that (you may or may not take it seriously) :
- Indonesia’s national motto is “Uunity in diversity”. Some people embody this value by wearing uniform in every occasion.
- It has something to do with family narcissism – to show the world that they are a solid family. Even though I have no idea what color and fabric has anything to do with solidness.
- They probably just want to do the money saving, because the cost of tailoring is cheaper when you do in bulk.
aku aku cinta indonesia!! cinta indonesia!!
i am from chicago and use a wheelchair. i only been cirebon, bandung and jakarta, i have kitas card and livin here 6 months on my third visit. only problem i ever had was defending my reversion to Islam.
i do wish things were more w/c friendly but that has not pushed me back to the usa. am quite happy here and indonesians are as if not more helpful then people i have ever found else where. am never worried to travel indonesia ( except the squat toilet) : ) that my only worry . love u indonesia
The entire topic of Muslims vs. the Western world is unbelievably frustrating to me. My father is Indonesian and my mother is American and I love both countries. I have close relationships with family members who are nationals of USA and Indonesia. I despise the entire ordeal really. In all honesty I don’t predict the paranoia will cease when it comes to expats and visiting Indonesia. Why? Radicals do exist in both nations. For instance, with the Priest Jones who was threatening to burn the Qur’an, this sparked response from the Indonesian President stating that it would jeopardize peace! Why? Why would the actions of someone so minor and insignificant actually influence relations between nations? He is another Radical, like the Bali Bombers, who make peace hard for everyone else because stupid people respond to Radical actions with opposing Radical actions. It’s a tug-o-war of ignorance and everyone else suffers.
Great post, Oigal, and completely correct. Indonesia is simply not that dangerous, particularly in comparison to the vast majority of its developmental peers.
Read recently that Venezuela had more than 16,000 murders last year. Again, just in one year. That probably exceeds the number killed in Indonesia in all forms of violent death since 1994 (when the first of the series of ‘transition riots’ occurred). Shocking, but true.
Oh, and this:
…is right on the money. Race to the bottom, indeed. Too bad they can’t all be moved to a remote island to fulfill their mutual apocalyptic/sexual fantasies…
Thanks Ody,
Sorry about the delay but “first” time comments have to be approved after that you should be good to go (its an automatic thingy).
Despite the ranting and raving of some who should know better, I would seriously doubt that most Expats could put their hand on their heart and say they live in fear in Indonesia. It remains one of the most welcoming nations.
Bizarrely and one has to wonder at the paraniod logic, but on the basis of this post I have been accused of supporting the Oppression and brutalising of Christians in Indonesia.
Post saying in general Indonesia is relatively safe nation for an Expat egro the drum supports oppression of minority groups?? Go Figure? Worse and even more repugant is the suggestion post dimisses those who lost their lives in Bali and Jakarta, abject nonsense of course (even more so if people knew my personal history) but you have to wonder at what is happening in the minds of some.
I have done a fair bit of travel around SE Asia and would anyone seriously suggest that Indonesia is more dangerous than say India or the Philipines for instance? Not even in the same ballpark.
Would these accusations, perhaps, come from people who’d like to see a little more “oppression and brutalizing” of Muslims in Western countries?
Without any doubt, the Indonesian government needs to do a better job protecting the political rights and physical well-being of its minorities. But as you presumably would agree, all democratic governments need to protect the political rights and physical well-being of their minorities. These are under threat in many Western countries as well, and groups like the EDL are really not very different from FPI.
But I forgot the common looneycon (thanks for the new term) logic, regardless of whether we’re talking about the Indonesian version or the Western version:
“When ‘you’ do it to ‘us’ it’s WRONG.
When ‘we’ do it to ‘you’ it’s JUSTIFIED.”
Absolutely. I’d wager to say it’s safer than any Latin American country, save Chile and Costa Rica, too.